FF_productions
Jul 15, 12:41 AM
Exactly - this is one of the reasons I'm glad Apple is going with a minimum RAM configuration. I'd much rather buy RAM from a reputable 3rd party dealer than have to succumb myself to Apple's significant premiums. Always buy 3rd party, never from Apple. :cool:
Still, it's ridiculous that Apple's Top-Of-The-Line machines don't come STANDARD with 1 gig of ram. I can guarantee they will when they come out next month. If the MacBook Pro's can come with 1 gig of ram standard, the Mac Pro's will too. I cannot wait to see this new Mac Pro, it's new design, it's new everything. I'm getting that countdown widget...
Ok, I just got it
http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/developer/wwdc2006countdown.html
Still, it's ridiculous that Apple's Top-Of-The-Line machines don't come STANDARD with 1 gig of ram. I can guarantee they will when they come out next month. If the MacBook Pro's can come with 1 gig of ram standard, the Mac Pro's will too. I cannot wait to see this new Mac Pro, it's new design, it's new everything. I'm getting that countdown widget...
Ok, I just got it
http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/developer/wwdc2006countdown.html
Denarius
Mar 22, 07:24 PM
No he hasn't, the stage management has been quite subtle, actually, for once.
I had considered that theory, but when Cameron first broached a no-fly zone in parliament, Clinton's reaction seemed to be very put out when she initially put the dampers on the no-fly zone suggestion. If what you suggest is the case then, frankly, it's been done beautifully.
I think there's an argument for letting one of the partaking Arab nations run the show.
I had considered that theory, but when Cameron first broached a no-fly zone in parliament, Clinton's reaction seemed to be very put out when she initially put the dampers on the no-fly zone suggestion. If what you suggest is the case then, frankly, it's been done beautifully.
I think there's an argument for letting one of the partaking Arab nations run the show.
epitaphic
Aug 19, 05:53 PM
And I'm not convinced this is only an application problem. When I run Handbrake on the Quad G5 alone it uses just over two cores 203%
So what happened to:
Both Toast and Handbrake can use 4 cores EACH
Looking at the handbrake forums, speeds seem to vary drastically between users with the same machine. Definitely seems to be affected by whatever else you have running or configured in the OS or otherwise. I suppose the "cleanest" install to test is in the Apple store (I'm just assuming they do a clean ghost copy at shutdown or end of day?)
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better.
So your benchmarks show the Mac Pro using 15-33% less CPU than the G5? There's no doubt that Woodcrest is a superior chip architecture to the G5 (one would hope after 3 years) and so that's why you're seeing more FPS inspite of less CPU use. But why does it use less cores though? Seems like either its a software problem OR some hardware is being maxed (I/O or FSB perhaps?)
So would it be correct to say that the only app that is even remotely "Quadcore aware" is Toast? It seems like by the time professional apps are made to take advantage of 4 cores we'll probably be on more than 8! :eek:
If only they could build something in the CPU itself that delegates tasks to n cores, we'd all be sorted. :)
So what happened to:
Both Toast and Handbrake can use 4 cores EACH
Looking at the handbrake forums, speeds seem to vary drastically between users with the same machine. Definitely seems to be affected by whatever else you have running or configured in the OS or otherwise. I suppose the "cleanest" install to test is in the Apple store (I'm just assuming they do a clean ghost copy at shutdown or end of day?)
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better.
So your benchmarks show the Mac Pro using 15-33% less CPU than the G5? There's no doubt that Woodcrest is a superior chip architecture to the G5 (one would hope after 3 years) and so that's why you're seeing more FPS inspite of less CPU use. But why does it use less cores though? Seems like either its a software problem OR some hardware is being maxed (I/O or FSB perhaps?)
So would it be correct to say that the only app that is even remotely "Quadcore aware" is Toast? It seems like by the time professional apps are made to take advantage of 4 cores we'll probably be on more than 8! :eek:
If only they could build something in the CPU itself that delegates tasks to n cores, we'd all be sorted. :)
zacman
Apr 19, 03:04 PM
2. You never specified which marketshare you were talking about.
When someone speaks about "smartphone marketshare" he usually means world wide and not only for Botswana. But nice try. :rolleyes:
When someone speaks about "smartphone marketshare" he usually means world wide and not only for Botswana. But nice try. :rolleyes:
SkyStudios
Apr 25, 04:43 PM
Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.
Apple only recently added the info into iTunes agreements, last year they where sued for collecting emails, chats and political views, this means they seriously can get access.
BTW a the devices unique ids can be simulated and one can plant a crime on another if the authorities actually depended on it.
Apple only recently added the info into iTunes agreements, last year they where sued for collecting emails, chats and political views, this means they seriously can get access.
BTW a the devices unique ids can be simulated and one can plant a crime on another if the authorities actually depended on it.
HecubusPro
Aug 26, 10:02 PM
Tonight NBC News noted that there is a combined Back To School K-12 $17.6 Billion + College $36.6 Billion = $54.2 Billion in play right now - much of it for Consumer Electronics - especially computers. Add in the switch to Core 2 and we are looking at an impossible situation to predict what is happening with regard to any of the supply shortages.
This is the second largest buying season only trumped by the end of the year holidays. Given this reality, I think we all need to try and exercise maximum patience and skip all the speculation why "clues" mean what. Any "clues" could have multiple reasons in this moment. :eek: :confused: ;)
Here in Los Angeles, I have been to a couple of apple stores, and a couple of best buy stores in the apple section. Everytime I was in those places, there were obviously college kids with their parents purchasing new macs, particularly the regular macbook. The apple stores especially were swamped with college bound students.
This is a huge time for all computer manufacturers, and laptops are big sellers for college kids. Shortages are bound to happen. I hope this doesn't affect my MBP making it to a store near me sooner rather than later, but I have a feeling it will. I do feel confident however, that within the next 3 to 4 weeks, I will have, or will have on order a new merom MBP. I hope. :)
This is the second largest buying season only trumped by the end of the year holidays. Given this reality, I think we all need to try and exercise maximum patience and skip all the speculation why "clues" mean what. Any "clues" could have multiple reasons in this moment. :eek: :confused: ;)
Here in Los Angeles, I have been to a couple of apple stores, and a couple of best buy stores in the apple section. Everytime I was in those places, there were obviously college kids with their parents purchasing new macs, particularly the regular macbook. The apple stores especially were swamped with college bound students.
This is a huge time for all computer manufacturers, and laptops are big sellers for college kids. Shortages are bound to happen. I hope this doesn't affect my MBP making it to a store near me sooner rather than later, but I have a feeling it will. I do feel confident however, that within the next 3 to 4 weeks, I will have, or will have on order a new merom MBP. I hope. :)
satty
Jul 20, 08:38 AM
Not that I wouldn't mind more processing power :D ...
but to me it doesn't make much sense for the majority of tasks/applications.
There might be rare exceptions in the professinal area and of course it makes lots of sense for a server, but for a single user machine?
Whatever, bring them on... in this case I like to be proven wrong.
but to me it doesn't make much sense for the majority of tasks/applications.
There might be rare exceptions in the professinal area and of course it makes lots of sense for a server, but for a single user machine?
Whatever, bring them on... in this case I like to be proven wrong.
peharri
Aug 11, 01:10 PM
If Apple does decide they're going to compete with, rather than cooperate with, existing cellphone manufacturers, they will lose their dominance over online music.
They have to cooperate with cellphone manufacturers because MP3 playing cellphones will end up being the future of portable music. Apple cannot make its own phone and expect to have even 10% of the entire market. Without its dominant market share, the iTMS will end up looking less attractive to the music industry - an industry already, by all accounts, upset with and wanting to get away from, iTMS - and will be deserted faster than you can say "90% of phones support Windows Media".
I don't believe this story. It doesn't make sense. Jobs crowing over a new product which by rights ought to be veiled in secrecy strikes me as insane. Apple producing a cellphone strikes me as insane. If I were a shareholder, I'd be calling up Steve Jobs personally and demanding answers.
That said, if it's any good, it's quadband, and supports EDGE and Bluetooth (and maybe UMA if the carriers can get their fingers out), I might buy one.
They have to cooperate with cellphone manufacturers because MP3 playing cellphones will end up being the future of portable music. Apple cannot make its own phone and expect to have even 10% of the entire market. Without its dominant market share, the iTMS will end up looking less attractive to the music industry - an industry already, by all accounts, upset with and wanting to get away from, iTMS - and will be deserted faster than you can say "90% of phones support Windows Media".
I don't believe this story. It doesn't make sense. Jobs crowing over a new product which by rights ought to be veiled in secrecy strikes me as insane. Apple producing a cellphone strikes me as insane. If I were a shareholder, I'd be calling up Steve Jobs personally and demanding answers.
That said, if it's any good, it's quadband, and supports EDGE and Bluetooth (and maybe UMA if the carriers can get their fingers out), I might buy one.
manu chao
Apr 27, 08:40 AM
Funny comment from Engadget:
Q: Why is my iphone tracking me?
A: It's not. It's tracking networks and cell towers near wherever you go.
Q: What is the difference between tracking me, and tracking the towers wherever I happen to go? Isn't that the same thing?
A: No. Because it's crowd-sourced. Total crowd size = 1.
Q: Umm. Ok? Soo. Why have you been keeping logs for the past year?
A: That was a bug.
Q: Then why was it unencrypted?
A: That was a bug.
Q: Right. Then why when I opted out did it ignore my choice?
A: That was a bug.
I think is quite conceivable that keeping those logs forever, not encrypting them, maintaining them despite an opt out, and not removing the timestamps was done in the spirit of: "Let's keep the data, maybe they will be useful at some point, and why bother do encrypt them, that is just some extra lines of code to write."
And it is this spirit which is somehow worrying.
Q: Why is my iphone tracking me?
A: It's not. It's tracking networks and cell towers near wherever you go.
Q: What is the difference between tracking me, and tracking the towers wherever I happen to go? Isn't that the same thing?
A: No. Because it's crowd-sourced. Total crowd size = 1.
Q: Umm. Ok? Soo. Why have you been keeping logs for the past year?
A: That was a bug.
Q: Then why was it unencrypted?
A: That was a bug.
Q: Right. Then why when I opted out did it ignore my choice?
A: That was a bug.
I think is quite conceivable that keeping those logs forever, not encrypting them, maintaining them despite an opt out, and not removing the timestamps was done in the spirit of: "Let's keep the data, maybe they will be useful at some point, and why bother do encrypt them, that is just some extra lines of code to write."
And it is this spirit which is somehow worrying.
azentropy
Apr 6, 01:30 PM
Apple also sold about 100K iPad's - yesterday.
dougny
Nov 28, 10:58 PM
Universal has already stated that half of the money will be going to the artists.
Spoony
Mar 22, 01:08 PM
What's with all these tablets being advertised in landscape??
I've had the first ipad since it came out last year and I'd say my Portrait to landscape usage ratio is like 70% portrait / 30% landscape.
I view webpages, read the WSJ, NYPost, books, ipod etc.. all in portrait.
Landscape is for tv shows / movies and some games.
Why are these tablets all designed as if the user is going to hold them landscape 90% of the time? Are magazines designed to be held landscape? I don't get these horizontal tablets.
I've had the first ipad since it came out last year and I'd say my Portrait to landscape usage ratio is like 70% portrait / 30% landscape.
I view webpages, read the WSJ, NYPost, books, ipod etc.. all in portrait.
Landscape is for tv shows / movies and some games.
Why are these tablets all designed as if the user is going to hold them landscape 90% of the time? Are magazines designed to be held landscape? I don't get these horizontal tablets.
jmsait19
Sep 19, 02:46 AM
(2) Those of us that buy Macbook Pros are throwing down $2500+ for top-of-the-line laptops. Sub-$1000 laptops have had a better processor than Apple's flagship laptops for nearly a month now. If you can still defend Apple after this, do a reality check on the fanboyism.
You should thouroughly read a post before you quote and attempt to disprove it, or in this case, call the poster a name like fanboy...
The poster before you mentioned how these "sub-$1000" laptops are JUST starting to ship THIS WEEK, not a month ago as you claim. If Apple were to release new MBP on Monday and announce them as "shipping today," then Apple would only mere days behind, not a month.
Sincerely,
Fanboy
P.S. If you skipped to the end of this post again and are about to reply angrily, please go back and read the post as you will better understand what I am trying to say...
You should thouroughly read a post before you quote and attempt to disprove it, or in this case, call the poster a name like fanboy...
The poster before you mentioned how these "sub-$1000" laptops are JUST starting to ship THIS WEEK, not a month ago as you claim. If Apple were to release new MBP on Monday and announce them as "shipping today," then Apple would only mere days behind, not a month.
Sincerely,
Fanboy
P.S. If you skipped to the end of this post again and are about to reply angrily, please go back and read the post as you will better understand what I am trying to say...
nefan65
Apr 6, 02:54 PM
It's nice for Apple to have high iPad2 sales, and I think that's great. It's too bad the Xoom isn't selling more, although 100k isn't too terrible right out of the gate.
I've seen and hefted a Xoom, and you know what? It's a pretty decent piece of gear. Good job Moto! From a hardware perspective I liked it every bit as much as the iPad2. In my opinion, its only downfall is Android. For me, Android is not intuitive at all. I can deal with that when it comes to traditional computers, but I don't have time to waste with that sort of nonsense on an appliance - I want it to just work, and that's what Apple provides.
Actually, 100,000 is pretty bad. I think it was released sometime in late Feb. the iPad 2 sold 300,000 in the first weekend.
Regardless, I think competition is good. If the XOOM had a WiFi only @ $400, it's make a huge dent. Plus, I've read that Honeycomb is less than polished, so I think that, along with a high price tag has some people turned off...
That's just my opinion though..and we all know what opinion's are like...lol
I've seen and hefted a Xoom, and you know what? It's a pretty decent piece of gear. Good job Moto! From a hardware perspective I liked it every bit as much as the iPad2. In my opinion, its only downfall is Android. For me, Android is not intuitive at all. I can deal with that when it comes to traditional computers, but I don't have time to waste with that sort of nonsense on an appliance - I want it to just work, and that's what Apple provides.
Actually, 100,000 is pretty bad. I think it was released sometime in late Feb. the iPad 2 sold 300,000 in the first weekend.
Regardless, I think competition is good. If the XOOM had a WiFi only @ $400, it's make a huge dent. Plus, I've read that Honeycomb is less than polished, so I think that, along with a high price tag has some people turned off...
That's just my opinion though..and we all know what opinion's are like...lol
robbyx
Apr 25, 04:05 PM
This suit has merit. If I turn off location services there should be no record of where I go.
Why would you assume that turning off location services would prevent tracking? The phone is still connected to the cell network. I'd assume Airplane Mode would turn off tracking, but not location services.
With that and other simple info I can find out where you work, where you bank, where you live, what time you usually get home. All it takes is one website or email attachment to compromise your device. This info is not encrypted.
I do think if Any device does this they should be sued
First, someone would have to obtain your phone. No one seems to mention this. Big bad Apple is tracking us all!!! Apple isn't tracking anyone. The phone is logging location information for some reason, perhaps legit, perhaps a bug, perhaps test code that got left behind, who knows. The point is, your location isn't compromised unless someone steals your phone.
And if they steal your phone, they'll have your address book, your web bookmarks, your email, your notes, etc.
Suing over this is idiotic and really shows how absurd this whole "privacy" debate has become. Scott McNealy said it best years ago: "Privacy is dead. Get over it."
Why would you assume that turning off location services would prevent tracking? The phone is still connected to the cell network. I'd assume Airplane Mode would turn off tracking, but not location services.
With that and other simple info I can find out where you work, where you bank, where you live, what time you usually get home. All it takes is one website or email attachment to compromise your device. This info is not encrypted.
I do think if Any device does this they should be sued
First, someone would have to obtain your phone. No one seems to mention this. Big bad Apple is tracking us all!!! Apple isn't tracking anyone. The phone is logging location information for some reason, perhaps legit, perhaps a bug, perhaps test code that got left behind, who knows. The point is, your location isn't compromised unless someone steals your phone.
And if they steal your phone, they'll have your address book, your web bookmarks, your email, your notes, etc.
Suing over this is idiotic and really shows how absurd this whole "privacy" debate has become. Scott McNealy said it best years ago: "Privacy is dead. Get over it."
iphones4evry1
Jun 8, 10:51 PM
I'm wondering though, what would be the advantages/disadvantages to buying it at Radio Shack vs AT&T vs The Apple Store? Once I have the item purchased, will I notice any sort of difference what-so-ever?
Cheers.
Honestly, it shouldn't make a difference. Whenever I go into an Apple Store to get help/support with my iPhone3G, they always help me, regardless.
I purchased my iPhone3G at one Apple Store, and when it started giving me problems, I took it to a different Apple Store and they replaced it with a brand new phone. Of course, it's possible that because I had bought it at an Apple Store, it mattered, but generally, I've sensed that regardless of where you bought it, because it is an Apple product (obviously, plus your serial number in your settings menu), Apple Stores treat you like any other Apple customer. (I recommend you call your Apple Store and ask them "If I buy it at Radio Shack, will the Apple Store provide full support and replacement, as if I had purchased it at the Apple Store?")
The drawback... if you needed to get support for the phone, you'd have to drive to an Apple Store (that's a long way for you, and none of the AT&T guys around my house (about 10 AT&T stores) know anything about service/support for the iPhone - they just tell me to go to the Apple Store.
Mine began freezing within the first 15 days. Went to ATT and they gave me so much trouble when trying to exchange it. They ended up not wanting to exchange it for me and said they don't take returns ... SO then i went to apple store, even though i bought it from ATT, they quickly opened up a new one and gave me a brand new one, no questions asked (just their standard serial number checks).
Earendil, there you go. Buy it on Apple's website, and if you ever have a problem, you can hop into your car and drive 90min up to the Apple store.
.
Cheers.
Honestly, it shouldn't make a difference. Whenever I go into an Apple Store to get help/support with my iPhone3G, they always help me, regardless.
I purchased my iPhone3G at one Apple Store, and when it started giving me problems, I took it to a different Apple Store and they replaced it with a brand new phone. Of course, it's possible that because I had bought it at an Apple Store, it mattered, but generally, I've sensed that regardless of where you bought it, because it is an Apple product (obviously, plus your serial number in your settings menu), Apple Stores treat you like any other Apple customer. (I recommend you call your Apple Store and ask them "If I buy it at Radio Shack, will the Apple Store provide full support and replacement, as if I had purchased it at the Apple Store?")
The drawback... if you needed to get support for the phone, you'd have to drive to an Apple Store (that's a long way for you, and none of the AT&T guys around my house (about 10 AT&T stores) know anything about service/support for the iPhone - they just tell me to go to the Apple Store.
Mine began freezing within the first 15 days. Went to ATT and they gave me so much trouble when trying to exchange it. They ended up not wanting to exchange it for me and said they don't take returns ... SO then i went to apple store, even though i bought it from ATT, they quickly opened up a new one and gave me a brand new one, no questions asked (just their standard serial number checks).
Earendil, there you go. Buy it on Apple's website, and if you ever have a problem, you can hop into your car and drive 90min up to the Apple store.
.
PhantomPumpkin
Apr 27, 10:20 AM
correct. wasn't sure how long it would take for people in general to get up in arms about location privacy on the idevices... what did people think was going to happen??
such it is, our electronic tethers are really leashes.
Really? So you're telling me that the location saved, of the cell tower 100 miles away, is actually really MY location?
Wow!
such it is, our electronic tethers are really leashes.
Really? So you're telling me that the location saved, of the cell tower 100 miles away, is actually really MY location?
Wow!
zap2
Apr 6, 04:22 PM
I have something better than a MacBook Air. It's called an iPad 2.
Honestly, they aren't very comparable. Yes, the iPad takes the place of many people's general computing, but I couldn't survive well with just my iPad. My Air in the other hand does a great job replacing my 15" MBP.
Honestly, they aren't very comparable. Yes, the iPad takes the place of many people's general computing, but I couldn't survive well with just my iPad. My Air in the other hand does a great job replacing my 15" MBP.
gorgeousninja
Mar 22, 10:10 PM
I do get a kick out of their 10.1" model being both thinner and lighter than the 9.7" Ipad2 though. That will undoubtedly have the apple apologists out en masse.
if you think 'getting a kick' from these points says anything remotely positive about your character...you'd be wrong.
if you think 'getting a kick' from these points says anything remotely positive about your character...you'd be wrong.
edenwaith
Jul 14, 04:39 PM
2003: "In 12 months, we'll be at 3GHz".
Mid 2006: "I want to talk about 2.66GHz" although 4 cores running at 2.66GHz (Yum! :D ).
Kind of odd/funny how we seem to be going backwards in processor speeds. Instead of 3.6 GHz Pentiums, we are looking at 2.x GHz Intel Cores. It would be interesting to see how well a single Core processor matches up to PowerPC, or a Pentium, or AMD.
However, I am finding one of my predicitions finally happen...it appears that a ceiling has been currently met on how fast the current line of processors can go, and now we are relying on multiple cores/processors to distribute work, instead of relying on just one fast chip.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
Mid 2006: "I want to talk about 2.66GHz" although 4 cores running at 2.66GHz (Yum! :D ).
Kind of odd/funny how we seem to be going backwards in processor speeds. Instead of 3.6 GHz Pentiums, we are looking at 2.x GHz Intel Cores. It would be interesting to see how well a single Core processor matches up to PowerPC, or a Pentium, or AMD.
However, I am finding one of my predicitions finally happen...it appears that a ceiling has been currently met on how fast the current line of processors can go, and now we are relying on multiple cores/processors to distribute work, instead of relying on just one fast chip.
So when will we start seeing 8 chips in a computer? Perhaps this will become the new measurement...not processor speeds, but the number of processors (or cores).
Eddie L.
Jun 9, 09:11 AM
I imagine they will be, but look at the page at the 3G and original iphone values. They will still be at or over $100 at the least.
Just posted to the Shack's Twitter page:
Trade-up to #iPhone4--> Get $100 for 3G, $200 for 3GS. Pre-order 6/15. More to come @robotodd @JRBTempe @ohnorosco @rosa @arrington
Just posted to the Shack's Twitter page:
Trade-up to #iPhone4--> Get $100 for 3G, $200 for 3GS. Pre-order 6/15. More to come @robotodd @JRBTempe @ohnorosco @rosa @arrington
cmaier
Apr 20, 12:10 PM
Then it sure doesn't apply to all models then if the trade dress claim is an AND'd combination. If the trade dress claim only applicable to certain models in the ones listed in the complaint ?
The trade dress claims do not list specific models.
Specific models ARE shown for illustration purposes in the background portion of the document, however.
The trade dress claims do not list specific models.
Specific models ARE shown for illustration purposes in the background portion of the document, however.
netdog
Aug 11, 02:55 PM
I wonder what carrier they'll go with?
I think the question is more likely to be this...
What providers will meet Steve's qualifications to offer the Apple phone bundled with their service?
One of the primary factors may very well be that the provider is not allowed to cripple the phone (as some love to do).
If there is enough demand for the phone, network providers will have to meet his terms.
I think the question is more likely to be this...
What providers will meet Steve's qualifications to offer the Apple phone bundled with their service?
One of the primary factors may very well be that the provider is not allowed to cripple the phone (as some love to do).
If there is enough demand for the phone, network providers will have to meet his terms.
rezenclowd3
Aug 20, 01:16 PM
The Colin McRae series WAS great. With Dirt, its no longer a wold tour, more random than the last McRae game that was made.
I don't care for the hoppers because when I race, I don't want to sprint. I want 10+ laps. 20-30 is good. Also, when in the friggen hell will qualifying be added back into racing games???? That is half the racing experience. NOT fighting from dead last EVERY FING race! Luckily I get my fix there with the F1: Championship Edition for PS3, which really is a pretty damn good racing AND F1 game.
Oh and with Forza 3, oval is fun, which I refuse to watch in reality. BUT these guys running in the hoppers have MODIFIED their stock cars....ugh...
When I race my electric RC cars, our club has started to go to 7minute races. Still not cooking motors. Laps happens to be about 25 right now in stock timing class. I really think its the number of laps that one can do consistently makes racing more fun, not time overall IMO. Those 7minutes seem to last a VERY long time.
I don't care for the hoppers because when I race, I don't want to sprint. I want 10+ laps. 20-30 is good. Also, when in the friggen hell will qualifying be added back into racing games???? That is half the racing experience. NOT fighting from dead last EVERY FING race! Luckily I get my fix there with the F1: Championship Edition for PS3, which really is a pretty damn good racing AND F1 game.
Oh and with Forza 3, oval is fun, which I refuse to watch in reality. BUT these guys running in the hoppers have MODIFIED their stock cars....ugh...
When I race my electric RC cars, our club has started to go to 7minute races. Still not cooking motors. Laps happens to be about 25 right now in stock timing class. I really think its the number of laps that one can do consistently makes racing more fun, not time overall IMO. Those 7minutes seem to last a VERY long time.